Hillarysworld -> The Democratic Party -> "Democrats Now Quietly Use Money From Outside Groups Too" (TMV, 10/31/10) ** Added info on Tea Party's funding sources *
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TOPIC: "Democrats Now Quietly Use Money From Outside Groups Too" (TMV, 10/31/10) ** Added info on Tea Party's funding sources *
The old saying “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander” is now in place — but perhaps it could be rephrased “What’s good for the Republicans is good for the Democrats.” But some (not those on the Supreme Court, though) would argue that’s what’s good for the Republican gander and the previously loud-sqwuaking Democratic goose who seemed mad at the gander is unfortunate for American democracy:
So talking points have proven to be….talking points. Yet another tidbit about politics that will tend to make independent voters in general more cynical and cause some independent voters to decide more than ever to remain independent. And although it’ll help in key races, this development uncovered by Newsweek’s Michael Isikoff won’t help strengthen a key Democratic argument about the troubling role of anonymous donations in campaign 2010.
[SNIP]
But the role of money hit the political analyst class bigtime earlier this month after Democrats were quoted in various articles as professing optimism. The money started pouring in and the narrative quickly changed. For instance, the Examiner noted:
Republicans are so far ahead in the money race that they continually expand the districts in play, forcing Democrats to go on the defensive; money with unknown origins floating around is seen as a mere dress rehearsal for 2012.
[SNIP]
So it seemed inevitable that the Democrats would enter into the group donations fray big time.
But here is an easy prediction: in 2010 [I think he meant 2012] look for anonymous donations from groups to play an even more extensive role — a role that’ll make this year’s donations seem like a tip at Dennys.
And expect the money to be pouring in from both sides.
There is NO WAY that Dems can run a campaign under this environment without forming nonprofits and sourcing corporate capital.
I encourage you to look up the funding sources (what little we can find) of Freedom Works, one of the key funding sources of the Tea Party Express (including the Tea Party tour bus, a lot of political and strategy consultation, talking points, advertisements). Most of the Political Advertisements are coming in the name of Americans for Prosperity (AFP) (On Wiki and Sourcewatch) Citizens for a Sound Economy is the parent organization of FreedomWorks and AFP.
In May 2009, Americans for Prosperity launched Patients United Now, a website self-described as a project offering information for those opposed to what they describe as "a government takeover of the United States health care system."[20]
Koch Family Foundations is funded by Koch Industries. According to Forbes, Koch Industries is the second largest privately-held company, and the largest privately owned energy company, in the United States. Koch industries has made its money in the oil business, primarily oil refining. Presently, it holds stakes in pipelines, refineries, fertilizer, forest products, and chemical technology. Americans for Prosperity is also connected to oil giant ExxonMobil. (Sourcewatch)
Yes, Hillary's 1994 Healthcare proposal was countered bigtime by big Pharma, Tobacco; so has this one, aided also by Oil, Gas, Chem industry conglomerates.
And, the barrier for Hillary in 2012 is quite high already from the Corporate finance side. This is why we are not hearing much of Hillary's accomplishments... Otherwise, the media would have been constantly covering her now especially this week as her trip to Asia is quite an important mission.
The fact that both parties have been bought and paid for by special interests with big bucks is part of the reason the Tea Party enjoys such a large following. The country is tired of being screwed by any and every fat cat who can just write a check and own a chunk of our government. Most people trust neither Dems, Pubs, nor the media, all of whom spin the truth to fit their own ideologies.
The time for a third party which represents a moderate view has come. If the far right wins the battle for the soul of the Tea Party, then another party will emerge.
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It was we, the people; not we, the white male citizens; nor yet we, the male citizens; but we, the whole people, who formed the Union.... Men, their rights and nothing more; women, their rights and nothing less. ~Susan B. Anthony
The fact that both parties have been bought and paid for by special interests with big bucks is part of the reason the Tea Party enjoys such a large following. The country is tired of being screwed by any and every fat cat who can just write a check and own a chunk of our government. Most people trust neither Dems, Pubs, nor the media, all of whom spin the truth to fit their own ideologies.
The time for a third party which represents a moderate view has come. If the far right wins the battle for the soul of the Tea Party, then another party will emerge.
Yes, that's what I had thought, but now we know that Tea Party is fed by the biggest sugar daddy of all. They are fed talking points and are giving us rhetoric day in and day out... and we are awash in a sea of nonsense and rhetoric.
As Pres.Bill Clinton said today, his is the biggest fact-free campaign season of all.
No wonder Hillary is oncerned about Democracy and says many times in the past two months, (with some body language for emphasis which is unmistakable if you watch the video clips), Democracy is more than elections. Democracy needs to be defended. It is very true for the U.S. today.
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Democracy needs defending - SOS Hillary Clinton, Sept 8, 2010 Democracy is more than just elections - SOS Hillary Clinton, Oct 28, 2010
Sanders, I have noticed you never include what the unions are doing...kind of strange to me since they are the BIGGEST spenders this election. This is why I won't support ANY campaign reform that doesn't also reign in the union dollars.
Sanders wrote:Yes, that's what I had thought, but now we know that Tea Party is fed by the biggest sugar daddy of all.
Wrong. Regression analysis based on the qualifiers of 1) Organization-Driven Political Activity; 2) Individual-Funded Political Activity; and 3) money donated to Think Tanks and Political Orgnanizations show that the Koch brothers, between the two of them, have donated about $61,546,691, whereas George Soros has donated $99,990,000.
I know it doesn't fit the narrative of trashing the Tea Party, but if we are interested in facts, then the facts show that it's George Soros who remains the biggest sugardady of all.
VH, They are all bad. Equally bad. I think I have already said that in another thread.
Biggest problem is stealthy spending by Nonprofits. That's the focus of this article and the other article which I will bump shortly.
Freedom Works did not disclose their source when asked by the reporters, so I went looking to Wiki and sourcewatch. This article was in the footnote on the Wiki post. Source of funding should not be so difficult to find. Just as I was posting I also saw the CNN thing on Tea Party where the interviewer of Freedom Works showed that they are not sharing the big funding sources.
So, now it appears that Democrats are using nonprofits and who knows what their sources are. Got to delve deep into those as well.
Not being open about the money flowing in is definitely a problem in this (and possibly prior) elections. All of it is bad for democracy.
freespirit, The time for third party, a true MODERATES party THAT IS WILLING TO COMPROMISE AND WORK WITH EACH OTHER without going the deep end on either side, is most certainly here. It is sorey needed, and hopefully they will start with campaign finance reform and put an end to all this nonsense spending by all "special interests" of all kinds. It is really bothersome. Democracy needs to return to being a strictly voter-funded movement.
-- Edited by Sanders on Monday 1st of November 2010 12:49:11 AM
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Democracy needs defending - SOS Hillary Clinton, Sept 8, 2010 Democracy is more than just elections - SOS Hillary Clinton, Oct 28, 2010
Sanders, I have noticed you never include what the unions are doing...kind of strange to me since they are the BIGGEST spenders this election. This is why I won't support ANY campaign reform that doesn't also reign in the union dollars.
I think the AFSME funding thing is within a thread. Can you post this as a separate article? We can try find more on this and other union activities this year. Thans.
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Democracy needs defending - SOS Hillary Clinton, Sept 8, 2010 Democracy is more than just elections - SOS Hillary Clinton, Oct 28, 2010
Sanders, I posted the article I did to achieve balance. I am so sick of the whole "boogey-man corporation" slants. Who the heck do you think creates jobs? And the bailout of the car industry? How nice that they are donating to this campaign on OUR DIME.
Unions aren't the "angels", but corporations aren't the "devil" either.
BTW, I think much of this stems from the PA ads being run here. Sestak starts every ad with "millionaire" Toomey. Guess what? Sestak is a millionaire also.
The Dems are going for class war this time in place of the race war they did in 2008.
Notice that I posted two articles one on Dem spend and another on Repub spend - both fueled by nonprofits without disclosure of special interest sources.
All special interest big money are equally bad. They are all pulling down democracy.
When we dont even know who is fueling the ads and the talking points that are being thrown at us and we are being invited to all these organizing sessions liek the Tea Party session I almost attended, it is bad for democracy. The little person voice is fully scripted and funded by big interests.
Little people like us will end up holding the bag in the end.
PS - Didnt knowabout PA ads. We are getting Canadian ads about our healthcare - ad funded by Americans for Prosperity. And I am thinking as I see that ad, Yes, someone came to U.S. for healthcare - she could afford it because all her life she did not have to pay for her healthcare and she could save and come here. And if we are rich enough I am sure we can get that kind of healthcare here. Poor, forget it.
I hope you saw Fareed Zakaria GPS today. If the corporations bring the money back and they are not taxed what are the chances that they will generate jobs in the U.S? Only in very advanced areas we will have job growth. For that there needs to be massive investment in education and infrastructure. It came through clearly as he interviewed IBM CEO Gershner and Alcoa CEO. Corporation are not bad; just not generating jobs in the U.S., not bringing profits back to US... and holding U.S. hostage on cashflow as they take cash out of the country to invest elsewhere but dont bring profits back in - that is bad.
-- Edited by Sanders on Monday 1st of November 2010 01:06:54 AM
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Democracy needs defending - SOS Hillary Clinton, Sept 8, 2010 Democracy is more than just elections - SOS Hillary Clinton, Oct 28, 2010
Notice that I said both Dems spend and Repubs spend.
No, you didn't. Notice your own statement in the original post:
Sanders wrote:
There is NO WAY that Dems can run a campaign under this environment without forming nonprofits and sourcing corporate capital.
Clearly you originally made it sound like Dems are just a hapless victim of the Republicans' big spending, and they should be absolved of any culpability because "What else can they do?"
You only came back with the faux "Ok, both parties do it" after others questioned why you highlight one group's spending while giving a pass to another. Had no one questioned that, your statement maligning one but not both, would have stood.
It's kinda hard to take your claims of moderate independence seriously then, when the actions you initiate of your own volition show such a disproportionate bias and seem to be qualified only when others point out such disparities.
Edit: First quote was cited while the quoted post was being modified by member. Responding to original statement.
-- Edited by Eminence on Monday 1st of November 2010 01:18:41 AM
Sanders, I have noticed you never include what the unions are doing...kind of strange to me since they are the BIGGEST spenders this election. This is why I won't support ANY campaign reform that doesn't also reign in the union dollars.
I think the AFSME funding thing is within a thread. Can you post this as a separate article? We can try find more on this and other union activities this year. Thans.
So, this one in Boston Globe was today's and more info? Ok. Will give it a read.
Just read it.
I like Chamber because it helps small businesses locally. As to their being spenders in election - not so much. They can lobby all they want.. but influencing the voters? I think each business can communicate how each legislation affects them directly to their employees (Definitely without saying which way to vote, that's a big no-no).. That's about the extent of EMPLOYER influence that should be there in an election. I think democracy should be about people voting and people pooling their money.
Whatever money is spent should be known. Thereis no FEC reporting by any of them - Corporations, Unions, Associations, other inforporated/legal/fictitious/nonbreathing entities, while individual voter donating to a campaign is in the FEC.. It is really not a good thing that Citizens United is enabling bigger spending.
What we needed is curb on existing corporate influence of organizations like ACORN and all the unions. ACORN's voter registration - I think that can be easily done at the DMV or post office as it is being done already. Unions are a disgrace, especially public sector unions that take tax deduction.
-- Edited by Sanders on Monday 1st of November 2010 02:34:18 AM
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Democracy needs defending - SOS Hillary Clinton, Sept 8, 2010 Democracy is more than just elections - SOS Hillary Clinton, Oct 28, 2010
Hillarysworld -> The Democratic Party -> "Democrats Now Quietly Use Money From Outside Groups Too" (TMV, 10/31/10) ** Added info on Tea Party's funding sources *